The Breakthrough Hiring Show: Recruiting and Talent Acquisition Conversations
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The Breakthrough Hiring Show: Recruiting and Talent Acquisition Conversations
EP 194: Leading with Respect and Direct Communication
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Ashlye Hernandez, Executive Director of Global Talent Acquisition and Operations at nCino, examines how her path from rural North Carolina to executive leadership shaped a people-first approach grounded in respect, resilience, and direct communication. She reflects on early missteps that strengthened her assertiveness, the feedback systems and personal board of directors that fueled her growth, and why work-life balance is really about intentional trade-offs. The conversation offers a practical lens on leading with clarity, discipline, and long-term impact.
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Hey everyone, welcome to the show. We have Ashley Hernandez with us today. Ashley is a talent acquisition executive. She has experience in talent strategy and operations and a whole lot of other things that I'm I'm looking forward to to jumping into today. Ashley, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for having me, James.
SPEAKER_00:So where are you from?
SPEAKER_01:Um I am from Wilmington, North Carolina. Uh, grew up in North Carolina in a small town called Beulaville, located in Duplin County, a small farming town.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. Nice. So my mom, my whole mom's side of the family is from North Carolina. Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah. So I definitely go down a fair amount. They grew up like all in like the Appalachian area, like uh outside of Asheville, like in the mountains and nice. Uh we're not a family like in Raleigh and like all over the all over the state. So awesome. Awesome. Yeah, it's a beautiful state. It's really nice down there.
SPEAKER_01:It is beautiful. Love it here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And um, you know, we'd love to get a sense for more about what you were like as a kid. As far as I remember, you said you it was a pretty small town you grew up in. It was uh it was another like a farming community primarily. I think you said yeah, what was it like?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I grew up kind of a tomboy, so uh I was riding four-wheelers, went hunting and fishing, and was really big into sports growing up. So uh probably not your typical girl growing up, but yeah, it was a lot of fun, a lot of outdoor time, very close with my immediate family growing up there. They all lived in the same town. So we we grew up being best friends with our cousins. It was great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, lots of uh outdoor stuff to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, lots of outdoor stuff, a ton.
SPEAKER_00:Four wheeling, yeah. That's um that sounds like a lot of fun. Is that do you continue to do those things now?
SPEAKER_01:I love to fish. I absolutely love to fish. Yeah, it was a great pastime. Um, my dad and I loved fishing together uh growing up, so always uh was kind of his tag-alone buddy um fishing. So it was it was great and still love to do it today with my own kids.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You and your dad were pretty close, right? It sounds like he was one of the uh biggest mentors in your life. We were going through like some of your value values and lessons learned, and it seems like you, in terms of your your worldview and your value system is largely based on a lot of the lessons he taught you, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, he was just an amazing person. I feel very fortunate to have two great parents that were high school sweethearts and got married and have had a great life together. Um, unfortunately, my dad passed away in 2017. But um, yeah, he was a great mentor to me, taught me a lot about not only life lessons, but just from a work perspective, gave me a lot of the the work ethics that I have today. And I owe a lot of that to him. Um, but yeah, I grew up with my mom staying at home most of the time. She was a stay-at-home mom until got older in life. So he was kind of the the professional in the household. Um, but neither one of my parents went to college. And so just having him to kind of work with from the professional side and get his perspective as I thought about, you know, growing up and what I was gonna do next in my life. Very thankful for the relationship with him for sure.
SPEAKER_00:And your parents, were they also from North Carolina originally?
SPEAKER_01:Same town, same small town. Yes. My my dad grew up on one side of the railroad tracks and my mom on the other. Um she grew up in she grew up in uh in town. So she was kind of from a different class, so to speak. Uh, and then my dad grew up in a in a farming family. Um, and so he he was the youngest of nine children. So uh very, very different upbringings for both of them. But yeah, high school sweethearts got married. Um, so yeah, amazing.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. Yeah, I'm always so impressed when you when you hear those stories about a high school sweetheart.
SPEAKER_01:I know.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I feel like with my daughter, I'm gonna be like, you gotta wait till you're like 30 or 35 or maybe 40, you know, just 40.
SPEAKER_01:Don't even get married. Oh, yeah, just you know, just take your time.
SPEAKER_02:Take your time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. I know what that's like. I know what that's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Especially with my my daughter, I feel like she's ready to be 18 tomorrow. I'm like, oh my god. I know it's scary.
SPEAKER_01:It's scary. Kids today grow up just having so many different challenges. I can't even and and they're so intelligent, like at five, you know, they are picking up an iPhone and can use it better than you can, and you've had it for several years.
SPEAKER_00:But uh yeah, so anyways, props to your parents, or that's uh that's a really cool story. And um, you know, your your dad sounds like he was also pretty successful, right? I mean, he he grew a lot professionally. What so what did he do?
SPEAKER_01:So he was in uh he always was in construction, um, and he did both residential and commercial. Commercial construction was the latter part of his career. Um had just established a great reputation in that business and had worked his way up in the company into an executive leadership role and just had such success. I know when he ended up retiring, it was tough for him to step away. And um, people were sad to see him leave because he had built such an amazing career and people really respected him and and the work that he did. But just amazing just to have no education and just really earn the positions that he he earned over the tenure of his career.
SPEAKER_00:And he taught you some pretty big lessons about showing up in the workplace and representing yourself. Um it sounds like some some foundational values and principles that would set you up for success in leadership roles, which you've clearly been really successful and advancing professionally. What were some of the the lessons that he taught you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he used to he used to tell me as I was in college and thinking about transitioning out into the professional world, he'd say you should always strive to be respected first and liked second. And I think, you know, as I've gotten older and reflected back on that statement, the meaning behind that was really you're gonna be faced with a lot of different challenges personally, professionally, right? And the easier route sometimes is to be liked, right? Anyone can do that. You can blend into the crowd, you can look like other people, you can agree with what people are thinking and saying, um, to kind of be in line with more popular opinion. But the really the hard work comes when you really earn people's respect, right? And people learn that they can trust you, that you're a person of your word, your values and ethics come out and kind of how you live your life. Um, you are who you say you are, you're true to those. And I think it's taught me a lot, personally and professionally, around the value of being respected, right? And sometimes that means you're not the most popular person in the room. Um, but I've learned that when people know who you are, where it's coming from, even though they may not agree, they can respect it. And I think that's just an amazing lesson that he was able to distill upon me. And I'm super grateful for that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, it's I think particularly moving into leadership roles, it's like a lot of it, it comes down to to how to communicate, figuring out how to articulate your yourself the the right way. I think um, you know, something you also talked a lot about was also just learning how to articulate yourself from a position of authority um uh assertiveness without coming across as aggressive. And I think you also mentioned too, just uh as a woman in the workforce, that's something that can be challenging too, to strike that that balance, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, true, true. That that's very true. When you're trying to earn respect, you know, sometimes it can be maybe seen as being overly aggressive, right? Um, but but again, I think it's a big testament to how you communicate, how you carry yourself, and kind of to your point, as females in the workplace, we sometimes shy away from leaning into tough conversations. But it's important to be assertive, right? It's important to let your voice be heard um in a conversation, let your opinions be known. Um, and again, just full circle back to being respected, right? If people know you are who you say you are and people know you're a person of your word and that they can trust you, I think ultimately I'm a believer that the respect component of that, um, there's a lot of weight to that, right? And um, I think just you know being comfortable with uh who you are sometimes can be a challenge. And, you know, I've learned through lots of bumps and bruises in in my career journey that um it's okay to to you know lean into those those conversations and not not to shy away, right? And I think that ultimately helps build respect over time, that you are kind of putting a stake in the ground for the things you believe in. And um people learn that you are who you say you are, right? If you say, you know, you you value these things, but then in practice you're doing something completely different, um, ultimately that erodes that respect. And so I think just always being mindful of that, whether at work or at home or in your community is is super important.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and so I actually have heard from a lot of uh women that are in executive positions that they are almost more likely to be considered aggressive uh when they're being assertive. That must be really challenging to navigate at times, right? Um I'm curious. I mean, it it must have been challenging to find that balance, particularly early on in your career where you're trying to navigate those types of dynamics. Um I mean, do you have any advice out there for for women that are in leadership roles and moving up and how to uh you know assert themselves and take a seat at the table and navigate these situations?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think, you know, I've been in the course of my career, I've spent most of my career in in the technology space, different industries, but a lot in the technology space. And for many, many years, um, when I was early in my career, it was pretty much male-dominated. And so many times I would be the only female in the room in conversations. And and I think hearing the the conversation from the males in the room, and then you know, if you were to weigh in and be very similar in tone and in conversation, people were kind of shocked that you were saying the things you were saying, right? And I think, you know, over time, as I've learned, right, just again full circle moments, um, early in my career, I found myself trying to blend in and trying to, you know, go along with conversations because I didn't want to be the person that stood out. I wanted to be the person that was like more often than not. And so I think though, as I became more comfortable with myself, right, more confident in myself, um, I found myself, you know, saying no in discussions or saying, you know, hey, we should consider a different path. And some of that just comes with experience, yes. But I think it's in all how you carry yourself, right? It's, you know, you can get a point across without using certain types of language, right? You can get a point across without, you know, being mindful of your body language. I think a lot of times as females, we sometimes have a more silent voice in the conversation, right? We may say no, but maybe it's a little bit more timid. And I've just found that, you know, I just by nature of who I am, I am always very prepared and very confident in the conversations, right? If I don't know something, I'm not going to be someone that's going to weigh in potentially with an opinion. Um, but there are are those things that I think if something doesn't feel right and you you you have a thought, right? Just starting to lean into those hard discussions, I think it's more of an art than a science. There's not necessarily one bullet point that I could tell you. But um, I've been fortunate through my career to to have a lot of you know great mentors that have taught me if you have a good idea, right? Don't shy away from from voicing that, right? And um, chances are if you're thinking it, someone else is thinking it. And so don't be timid in the conversation, right? The worst thing people are gonna do is say no, they disagree. But at least you've had the opportunity to voice your opinion in the discussion.
SPEAKER_00:And I know there's a lot of lessons learned throughout your career and just holistically, right, as uh as a mom and a partner. To continue down the path though of what we're discussing in terms of learning and growing professionally. You also talked to me a lot uh about your early days working as a consultant and starting out as a project manager. Um and so it was like uh I think it was like your first big contract, right? And you were leading a team of um engineers and and and the takeaway from the story was learning to really I it sounds like like value and listen to the folks that are on your team. Can you can you tell us about that experience and what you the takeaways and and what you learned from that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was early 20s, um, first big contract, like you said, and was leading a a team of of technical engineers. And I have a background in engineering too. That was my first internship was as a as a software engineer. So, you know, had enough knowledge to be dangerous in the conversation, but definitely not as experienced as as this group of engineers was.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you were a software engineer for two years. I didn't realize that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I have a have a crazy background. So that's awesome. Um yeah. And um, and so it was interesting as I began to work with this team, you know, I was again early 20s, um, probably had a an ego as big as I I was candidly, and you know, just in reflection of that time of my life, was not really listening to the the conversations around me, right? I wasn't valuing the stakeholders, the primary stakeholders in the meetings and and this group of engineers 100% what were that to me. And the value of relationships, right, from a project's perspective, obviously you're you're leading a team of individuals with no direct authority, right? And so it taught me a lot about um the value that people are bringing to the table, the contributions that they're making, right? To really listen more, talk less, right? Um, and thankfully in that situation, um, one of the lead engineers uh kind of called me out, right? Which is great. And the more I reflect back over my career, those are the relationships that I truly have back valued, right? The ones that will tell you the things that you need to hear, not necessarily what you want to hear, right? They're the ones that are going to challenge you in different ways. Um, they're the ones that call out your blind spots, right? You don't know if you have them until someone says it. And um, in this specific moment, there was a situation where um we had a miss, right, on the project team and we needed to course correct. And uh this engineer, when I went to him, um, candidly said, you know, why should I help you? Right. You you clearly don't value what I'm bringing to the table or the team is bringing to the table. So it was really that aha moment for me where I realized like he was completely right, right? I was so focused on driving to the outcomes and getting the deliverables and hitting the dates that I wasn't listening to the conversations around me and I wasn't really valuing the expertise that was at the table to help us be successful ultimately. Um, so it was just a really great moment in my career. And and again, some of the lessons taken from that is, you know, just truly being present in the conversations, listening to the the dynamics that are happening, observing the dynamics, and then, you know, being open to the feedback, right? It's it's easy to say that people we all want feedback, but then in the moment when you're getting it, you know, how you respond to it is is really the true keys to success in that moment. And so I'm just really grateful for that experience and that individual being willing to call me out. Um, I think it was a definitely a pivotal moment for me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Uh so one thing that uh I've noticed on the past several podcasts that we've done, which have been in this newer format show that we're doing right now, is when we get to the takeaway section, it's uh pretty common for me to hear from guests about a situation in which they got constructive feedback or and not always packaged, you know, they're buttoned up in the in the nicest of ways. We've having a lot of folks that have been very successful in their career and and uh taunt acquisition executive roles, and they all seem to, without fail, be the type of people that are smart enough or humble enough or I don't know what, coachable enough to really take time to reflect, listen to feedback, and actually learn from it versus getting defensive. Um so it's a very like common trait that I'm seeing across people that are making it to the top of their game.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, it's definitely an industry that has changed quite a bit, right? When you think about the dynamics just in the last several years, companies laying off thousands of employees and people being in the market, right? Just infiltrating and then companies, you know, scaling back. So you've got organizations that have grown and shrunk and you have kind of a full dynamic. I think when it comes to the feedback in this space, though, um, to be successful in the talent world, I'm a I'm a believer that you have to be a person for the people, right? Your your whole role is about attracting the best talent to an organization, right? And so if you as a leader aren't receptive to the feedback, that's ultimately helping attract the best talent into an organization, you know, and and truly listening to it, um, I think it just presents challenges, right? I see things a little different, you know. My my full background is not in talent, it's more in strategy and operations. And so coming into this last role, I see things through a little bit of a different lens. But fortunately for me, in the course of my career, the keys to all the success that I've been fortunate to be a part of has always been about the people. So ultimately, how you look at the talent coming in, how you're coaching other leaders into looking at the talent that they're wanting to obtain for their for their teams, I think it is a skill to you know really look at what does that look like, right? Again, going back to really leaning into the conversations to help people really think about what is it that they really need um in these roles. And um, but yeah, I I think as a leader though, when when it comes to feedback, um to really just reflect on who's delivering it, right? And what are the scenarios that they're calling out, be be specific in saying, can you give me examples? Right. Um and you know, don't just let it stop there, right? If someone tells you that you you need you're not an effective communicator, okay, well, then ask other people, right? I had a mentor one time tell me that everyone should have a board of directors, a personal board of directors, right? And and on your personal board of directors, you should have obviously people that you trust. And there should be people that are going to give you feedback that you need to hear, not that you want to hear, right? And you should think about all facets of life, right? You should think about someone on your board that's really good at finances that you can ask for financial advice from. But more importantly, have people on your board that are going to really give you direct feedback on your blind spots and the things that you don't see, people that you can share your aspirational goals with and where you want to go in your career that are going to be willing to have those difficult conversations with you. And so when it comes to feedback, my advice to individuals is always validate it, right? You get one person's opinion and it is an opinion, a perspective of how they see things, but then validate it, right? Validate it with individuals you trust, your board of directors, um, and and just seek the feedback, right? Um, don't just let it just be one person's opinion.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with that. I think it's so in important to be able to learn from others. And then of course, uh uh, you know, I think as Richard's saying, validate. I think checking the source is also important, right? Like knowing who where it's coming from and then and then val, you know, talking about it with others is smart. I think when I carry more words, I'm trying to think where I heard this, but um, you know, when you look at people that are like literally the top of their field in any area of life, right? Like the top, let's just say professionally, right? Like CEOs, they have more advisors than like you know, pretty much anyone else in the business. The the the best athletes have the most coaches more than anybody else in their sport. Like people that are literally at the very best at what they do disproportionately have even more advisors. So it's like I think it's like one way to look at it for ourselves. It's like, look, if Michael Jordan had a coach, like probably should too, right? Like, you know, if yeah, right. It's you're never at a point where you're not like it it we we need support from others we need to have advisors uh we need to have sponsors we have to have people that are are willing to kind of have our back and help teach us like that's very very normal so yeah i think it's something for folks to kind of maybe that's a takeaway here is to kind of like slow down and really think about like you know is there do you have people that are essentially in your board of directors that you can go to and if not thinking through different ways to develop those relationships right I mean it's it's very true it's very true and I think when people feel like they are they're beyond a need for a coach or an advisor right you should maybe that's a signal too that people should really think because the world is constantly changing um and there's always things to learn right and ultimately getting perspective from a collaborative of individuals um ultimately should help you be better right bring your best self to to the table and I get it right it's hard sometimes myself included to to seek it out and to really hear really hear that's the key like really listen to what is being said to you um and then take it into consideration from the lens of who's delivering it and then be intentional about examples.
SPEAKER_01:I think people underestimate can you give me an example can you tell me a scenario can you right because we all move very fast in life maybe that was a bad day for you maybe it was a point in time but you didn't show your best in that moment in time right and so now you're more consciously aware of it and once you are you kind of start to shift and change over time if it's something you want to change um you know change doesn't happen unless you want it to so yeah sometimes it's hard even when you want it to right sometimes it is sometimes it is yeah so like one of the things we talked about too is kind of just other top takeaways and give some interesting perspectives I think when it comes to work-life balance kind of where your head's at surrounding the concept of work-life balance which I feel like for executives is like this endless formula that we're trying to solve for but I I think you have a an interesting perspective here if you wouldn't mind sharing it with us. Yeah I say work-life balance to my team all the time you know I want you to have work-life balance my personal philosophy and I also share this is there's really no such thing as work-life balance balance is to each individual's own scenario meaning that you know I'm a professional I'm a wife I am a mother right I'm an aunt I am a community member and when I look at all the things that are extremely important to me if I'm accelerating in one and I'm giving 110% I'm by the nature of math right you're you're not giving the same percentage to everything else that you hold true to yourself. And so when I say work life balance it's really more around being comfortable in those moments where you're not giving 100% in something else, right? It's just what whatever that means to you. If I am giving 110% at work, that means probably something in my personal life whether it's missing an event at my kids school or not attending a fundraiser in our community is not happening. And it doesn't mean that you're a bad person. It just means in that moment that the priorities are different and it's more about becoming comfortable when those things happen and because they will and I think we sometimes put so much pressure on ourselves at least again from the female perspective that we seek it so so much to find that balance. And it's really more about being comfortable when you're not doing all the things right it's impossible and I think for your own mental health it's important to just find that space to know that you know I'm doing the best I can in this moment and this is my work life balance for for today right and it may shift tomorrow and that's okay too. But um it's more about just finding comfort and peace of where you are and that's going to look different for everybody else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah I think it's this um it sounds like sort of what you're saying it's like this acceptance of okay it's not going to be perfect. And and you also talked about the importance of having like the right partner in your case husband to work together where maybe more holistically as a family there's more balance I suppose um yeah right um but yeah I think that that's that's tough. I think one thing that I find a little bit tough is I'm very career focused. I care a lot about being a really good dad and and sometimes those don't it's it's hard to do you know both and there's definitely like this like sometimes sense of guilt of I can't get off work early enough to do something and um I do I do have like certain time blocked out and that's sort of my solution. But I would say the acceptance piece is still I don't know if I'll ever truly I don't know hopefully I can be but I don't know if I'll ever truly be like at least to date I have not been truly happy with like I haven't found a solution that I'm like I feel like I'm doing everything that I I want to be doing in this moment or you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Like I I want to work hard to provide financially I also want to have all the time in the world right it's I you can't you know yeah it there's really no such thing as work life balance. I mean it's it I I I hear what you're saying and it ebbs and flows right and I and I think you have to just be okay with that thinking about children you know obviously I have three children as well and so they're always watching you right they're just watching you even when you think that they're not observing you right they're they're looking at everything they're taking it in I hope to instill in my own children the importance of having you know strong ethics whether that's in life or work it is important to think about you know how you show up in those scenarios right and how you respond. And and my partner, right, you mentioned my husband we had to have some hard conversations about we were coming home in the evenings and we found ourselves both on our phones or having a laptop open at the dinner table and and we said this is not how we want to show up in these moments with our with our kids and there's going to be those exceptions but they should be far and few in between and you know between the times of five and eight that's our family time right we're gonna have dinner we're gonna do all the running around and getting kids to sports and extracurricular activities but but that's our time and it does take discipline it's it's tough when you know that there's an email that you got coming in at you know 449 or 450 and and you want to respond but you just have to continue to be that discipline in those moments because time time moves very quickly and um you can't get those moments back. So again whatever balance looks like for you it won't be the same for everybody else.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Sounds like maybe this is also top of mind because you're actually transitioning out of your current role pretty surely I think it might have been up like today, right? Like this might today. Yeah today is yeah wow well congratulations yeah thank you uh I guess that's why you've probably been thinking a fair amount about work life balance and what's next right so um how are you feeling about about this transition?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I'm always I mean it's like with anything you know there's lots of emotions right you spend more time at work than you do with your own family speaking of families and you build a very deep relationship with the individuals that you're fortunate enough to work alongside of and you know I'm I'm I'm sad about that element of it but excited at the same time um you know about the next chapter right candidly a little nervous just because I'm not really sure what that looks like today but um I'm confident in that it it will kind of show itself when the timing is right. But yeah all the emotions all the normal things um but yeah I'd say relatively excited for some personal time with my family and moments of reflection I'm a pretty deep sinker. Haven't always been that way but am finding myself the older I get being that way all in my fields. But yeah just just having having that moment the breather moment which unfortunately um in the professional world especially at certain levels of your career you you don't have very many of those moments um so I'm looking forward to that yeah that's that's gonna be so this is your you're gonna take some time off professionally before this what's the longest break you've I mean have you really taken a break to reflect before no I was actually just thinking about this I've been working for well I won't tell you how old I am but 30 years. I've had a job for 30 years and I guess maybe you could consider this is not a break by the way um those of you that that females on the call that have uh children know that having children is not a break someone did say right it's actually that's like the harder the harder someone said to me the other day well you did take time off when you had your kids right I'm thinking clearly you don't have children because that is not time off yeah um but but no this is this is the longest period this is the first time that I'm really gonna take some reflection time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah yeah yeah it's uh I it's um work is when you have kids like particularly small kids like work is where you go to relax that's it's like my mean my me time like little yeah yeah well my my crazy yeah and it doesn't get any well my youngest is 10 and then my oldest is he'll be actually 18 on Friday yeah and and then my daughter it will be 16 even at those ages they're constantly you know busy in something and doing something the craziness just shifts as I get older yeah that's actually you're right I don't so I um my experience is limited I I have one six year old girl so I haven't yet yeah experienced don't worry we'll get there yeah I'm just gonna live under the illusion that things are just getting easier yeah you're like okay well yeah big just remember these words big kid big problems yeah no that's what I keep hearing I'm just like I'm just I'm like it's just in denial you know I'm just like um well yeah so well that's that's great I think it's really if we're fortunate enough to be able to take some time away from work if uh you know it's lucky enough to be in that position I feel like it is so important right just to to take a step back and to really kind of think about our lives realistically and our value system and that's such a special experience to be able to have so I'm really happy for you glad you're able to kind of take a moment and thank you focus on the I suppose even more demanding job of being a parent very true that is very true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah it's fun it's funny you say that because like I you know I always tell my team like you should put thinking time on your calendar like everyone needs time to think but you think about it in our personal lives a lot of time we don't take that time like we don't we don't intentionally make that time to really reflect and think. So I am looking forward to that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah yeah and so we we talked a lot about like in terms of your top takeaways just at this time of your life talk about kind of work-life balance just accepting that like by the nature you're saying if you're giving 100% somewhere it's like you you just sort of have to accept that there are essentially trade-offs and just be thoughtful and mindful about what your priorities are. You've also shared with me it seems like throughout your life there's this increasing focus too on empathy and you know first there was that story of like in the earlier days when you were a project lead and it seems like developing empathy and really valuing professionally and it seems like just throughout life there's I suppose situations in which we continuously maybe even learn things at deeper levels, right? Yeah um and I know that you said that this has been something you focused a lot around is learning how to be truly empathetic, understanding that things can be happening that you're not aware of in people's lives and to be mindful of that in terms of how we communicate and approach situations. Could you tell us more about that and why that's so important to you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I mean I I think a a a personal story you know just but before I get into that I mean I think over the course of my career I've been very fortunate to have strong mentors um and some that have taught me many things that I carry forward and some that have taught me things that I've made decisions that were not for me to carry forward and and but in both of those situations lessons have learned and I'm grateful for people that have taught me those things. And one of those being empathy right and just meeting people where they are and just recognizing that you you don't know where people are or what they're shouldering or what they're carrying. And this this year personally I had a a situation in my family where my son actually was struggling with mental health and it's still an ongoing thing that we deal with but it really forced me in in his situation to really recognize uh the true meaning of empathy and meeting people where they are and candidly just not really knowing all that is going on within someone um and how people a lot of times just go through life masking it right you they come to work every day with a smile on their face they are giving 110% um but then in their personal life or in other parts of their life they're just drowning right they're just drowning. Those moments like that teach you a lot in life right they they teach you for me it taught me the true meaning of resilience and that love sometimes looks different in different situations right sometimes um as a parent love means just sitting quietly and and not saying anything I've always said this to people since I became a parent that my children are my best teachers that they have taught me so many lessons that I see myself caring for in my leadership roles and um and I think you know this last year has taught me more than I fully have appreciated honestly and it's been a very difficult year personally but it has really showcased all the things that I talk about right and I think you and I chatted that as leaders we kind of have a checkbox a list of things right we we know we should be empathetic. We know we should be authentic and genuine we we know we should make people feel good about change and and shepherd them through change and I think there's certain pivotal moments in everyone's life where it just comes full circle for them all the things that we just talk about and we learn about we read books about as leaders um and it's in those moments where if we truly just stop, reflect and see the lessons that we're learning in those moments um you just have a completely different level of not to use the term but empathy um or or resilience or gratefulness. And unfortunately for me it was a very difficult time but um I'm grateful for it and empathy is something that I think as leaders we we say the term a lot but we underestimate too especially when it comes to the people we're fortunate to work alongside of and lead each and every day. Do you feel like what your son was uh struggling with was that part of your decision to look at what we what you referred to as work-life balance and kind of think through like okay you know what I we're gonna pivot for a little bit we're gonna I was yeah I know what you're saying I I think in the moment um candidly for me I'm an analyzer right that's just part of my personality I I analyze situations sometimes to an unhealthy degree right it maybe it's the type A in me where I just kind of keep coming back to different scenarios or maybe it's the project manager mentality of like did we hit the intended outcomes um or maybe I'm just weird because I do that I don't know but um yes I think in that moment work was a safe place right it was a place for me to come to to kind of escape a lot of really tough things that were going on people were like don't you just want to take time away from the office and in his situation um I knew that if I took time away and I knew myself well enough to know that I would just ruminate I would just almost drown myself in trying to analyze the situation that we were in and that wasn't going to be healthy for me or him honestly and in order to find balance in that moment worked helped me it helped me kind of focus my effort in a different way and then still have enough energy to continue to focus on him. And I I think maybe that sounds weird but that was where I found myself but yes it it is forced me to kind of rethink what I value in this moment what is the priority in this moment. And I think being comfortable with whatever that is for you is is tough a lot of times for people that are heavily professionally motivated, right? That it's difficult to to say you know wow this this is where I am at this moment and this is what the priority is and this means I'm gonna have to shift and change. But again I think just being confident in self and a little um adventurous in self is kind of where those qualities and individuals rise up. But yeah I think those pivotal moments are when life hits you in the face and I don't know how else to say it it kind of forces you humbles you to really take look at where you are and what the priorities are and how you're showing up every day, right? At home, at work. Um yeah I I still tell my son today that as tough as this year has been more so for him he is my best teacher he is my best teacher and I'm so proud of him um and and you know it's it's humbling to to see as a leader to watch your team kind of continue to grow but and and then and my personal life as a parent to watch my in this situation my son grow and navigate some difficult times.
SPEAKER_00:We talked about empathy and we also talked about resilience. Maybe there's like some more details there that you could share when people are working through challenging times, right?
SPEAKER_01:Whether it be personal professional I'm just curious do you have any advice on on how to get through those times or to like how to to help people uh family members through those times I I know empathy is a big part of it but I'm curious was there anything else that you were thinking about a lot to kind of help push you through to the to the other side of where you are today or anything like that you could mention yeah I I I wrote a an article on on LinkedIn just about resilience and and it really tying this full circle back to this specific situation. And I think you know resilience is is a term that gets thrown around in in many industries. I don't know that it's it's necessarily again a a a specific definition you can give to it that truly represents what it is right I think in in the moment it it looks different for everyone in in this situation resilience for me you know as a leader my my nature is to you know try to lead right to get out front to try to solve to try to think through the situation and that's just naturally who I am I'm a solver. I I want to fix right that's just core to who I am and in moments sometimes in life or even even professionally right it's showing up and in this situation meeting truly meeting someone where they are and I think that is tough sometimes as a leader to not step in or to try to fix right and as a parent that's tough to not try to step in and try to fix and the realization and the comfortness of realizing that every problem cannot be solved by you right and just meeting someone where they are and sometimes helping them is sitting with them in silence. Sometimes it's maybe coaching them on a situation but I but I think resilience isn't one thing it's several things lots of things in the moment I'm always an optimist right everyone has challenges in life good and bad I tell tell my team That's you know, there's a lesson to be learned in everything, and it it's on you to learn the lesson, and it's difficult sometimes to reflect and take those moments to try to really understand what that lesson is. And I think that's a part of resilience, right? In order to continue to go through things and go through life and continue to show resilience, that it's important that you're learning from the journey that you're on. And so uh yeah, I I think it it's this year has taught me a lot, and I'm very grateful for the professional experiences I've had that have taught me a lot. And um yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The last thing I want to talk to you about today uh is really getting a sense for like the future, right? Yeah, what the the next best version of yourself looks like to continue to evolve and you have all these different life experiences personally, professionally, and you've learned so much and come such a far way. And um curious, uh, you know, you're gonna have some time to reflect and to think through the next chapter. I'm just curious. Maybe you're still figuring this out, but I'm curious uh your your next goals personally, professionally, what's top of mind for you right now?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I told my husband I was retiring and he said that was not true. Uh no, no. Um yeah, I mean, I don't really have it thought through, right? Which is which is a little different, right? Just not not characteristic of me by any means, right? I'm a planner through and through. If I could plan my life out for the next ever how many years, I would totally do it. Um so there's a little bit of uh excitement by the fact that I don't have a a necessarily planned out scenario behind that. And I think, you know, really just taking that reflection time, taking time for self, which is very difficult to do when you're wearing so many hats, is is important. Um I I think it helps you bring your better self when you do have those opportunities. Just taking time to to kind of invest back in my community, which I which I love doing so much, um, and have had, again, have had to have some trade-offs over the last several years to try to have more balance, spending time with my kids and my husband and traveling. But, you know, thinking about the next opportunity, right, Rot really excites you. And as a leader, I'm sure many people on the call, you spend a lot of time coaching your team members on, you know, what are the things that get you excited and get you out of bed every day. And um I think at certain points of your career, you you kind of start to go through the motion, right? And we're not challenging ourselves to think about those things, even though we coach people on them all the time. And so I for me, it's not making necessarily quick decisions and just being very thoughtful about what the next chapter entails and just thinking about the course of my career and the things that have really excited me and energized me and the skills that I have and the things that I bring. And then, you know, when the right fit lands itself, I'm looking forward to that next opportunity and meeting more great people and working alongside individuals to make whatever it is great or better or scale or or what have you, insert keywords there. But yeah, just truly taking the time to reflect and be thoughtful about that that next chapter.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think for a lot of ambitious people that have been on the on the move and planning uh for so many years, it's almost like not planning and having them more relaxed or or not as fixed of a schedule or short-term plan, is like that that's an area where you can have growth, right? Because it's out of your comfort zone. I haven't had a ton of time to take off uh throughout my career at this point. There was uh the longest I've had, which I don't know if this is good or bad, but uh at my company's 10-year anniversary, I took three weeks off. Okay, so like that was like all right, you know, so that's sort of where I'm at. I'll play, you know, I'll have yeah. It was like it really broke a pattern. That was still a lot that for me. That was like when you go from really never unplugging to being away for a few weeks. I just went up in the mountains, do a mountains, like in a little cabin, and it was like getting a bucket of cold water dumped on you, just kind of broke the pattern so abruptly, even in that short amount of time, right? Like I think it's just so impactful to be able to kind of break patterns because it it's it's like it opens something up in our minds. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01:A hundred percent agree with that. And I think, you know, especially as people that are driven um professionally, you just get into that to that mode, and a lot of companies now are you know part of their benefits package, you you know this, right? Are baking it in sabbaticals because they see the value that it brings, right? From a employee retention and experience and engagement perspective, right? It just there is something to be said. There's lots of market studies and data that you could kind of short, you know, showcase to to kind of point back to that, that that kind of reset, refocus in life, in personal, professional, what have you, is is needed because we we just become creatures of habit, right? You go through the motions of life and and you don't intentionally a lot of times take those moments to reflect. And so, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, actually, hey, this has been a a really fun conversation. Thank you for coming on today and sharing absolutely your journey and your story with everyone. It's been it's been a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, James, for having me.
