EP 193: Building Credibility and Driving Impact in Talent Acquisition

Morgan Whyte, Senior Director, Global Head of TA and Employer Brand at Commvault, shows how early stability and unexpected family challenges forged her resilience and ownership mindset. She outlines the work ethic built through early jobs, the clarity gained from poor leadership, and the choice to pursue stretch roles that expanded her visibility and impact. The conversation reframes talent acquisition as a high-standards, high-empathy function where advocacy and proactive partnership drive results.

Connect with host James Mackey on LinkedIn! 

Thank you to our sponsor, SecureVision, for making this show possible!

Follow us:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/82436841/

SecureVision: #1 Rated Embedded Recruitment Firm on G2!
https://www.g2.com/products/securevision/reviews

Thanks for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Welcome everyone. Welcome to the Breakthrough Hiring Show. We have Morgan White with us today. Morgan is currently in the position of Senior Director, Global Head of TA, and Employer Brand over at Commvault. But Morgan, really looking forward to talking with you today. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah. So uh Morgan, where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I grew up in New Jersey in a town called Howell. Most people probably haven't heard about it. We're central in the state on the coast. So we're we're by the Jersey shore. I grew up in a town that had very little and now has a lot. Like has grown a lot. You know, it's it was much more farmland when I was younger.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Yeah, that's actually a very shared experience that I had. I grew out out outside of the DC area.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

It was uh yeah, definitely a lot more farmland uh when I was uh a lot younger, and now it's like populated. Now now I'm sitting in the Google building and in Reston, which was uh probably farmland when I was a kid. So um definitely a couple things.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

You're very familiar with what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Right, yeah, exactly. Um well, cool. So uh what were you like as a kid?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

I was a rule follower, a massive rule follower. Uh you told me to stay in my lane and I would do it. So I also really like playing with Barbie, so I had a million. Um, the middle child of three kids, I have two brothers. So usually people would say the middle child was the craziest, but here I am. Although I will tell you one thing. I used to climb the staircase from the opposite side of the stairs, and up like, so my mom would be very upset with me on those days that that was my daredevil coming out.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

It's like you turn it into a jungle gym, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah.

unknown 2:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

You don't realize how dangerous it is when you're like five, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Well, it's fun. Yeah. It's like I could definitely see my daughter doing that.

unknown 2:41

Yeah.

Family Roots And Values

SPEAKER_00 2:42

So yeah, I mean, I'd love to learn a little bit about your family. I think you said your family is like half Italian, half Irish. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yes, both very traditional. My parents, uh Catholic background. So aside from them being Irish and Italian, they, you know, there's the family similarities and the dynamics were there, which means very tight-knit, uh, very close, lots of kids, lots of cousins, lots of aunts, uncles, etc. around at all times.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah. I mean, we, you know, big purpose of this show again show again is like the concept of developing the whole person, right? Folks tuning into we all want to, of course, develop um you know, professionally. I think that's why people initially they tune into podcasts like like this, right? It's like they want to learn how to be a great leader, great town acquisition leader. But like as we sort of discuss, right? Like, in order to be the best version of uh ourselves in any part of our life, we have to develop holistically as people. And um, we'd love to learn um from you and get a sense for like your value system and like kind of what developed your worldview. And uh love to just to ask you about impactful events uh and chapters of your childhood. And I know you mentioned we talked a little bit about like different family dynamics as they started to change as you got a little bit older. And I want to see if you uh wouldn't mind sharing some of that with us.

Hardship, Loss, And Resilience

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, of course. So I say shared very traditional uh upbringing, so very traditional gender responsibilities in my house. So my mom was a stay-at-home mom, and my dad uh went to work. He was in the medical field, and he unfortunately became disabled at a at a very young age. I might have been about 10 or 11 uh when that happened. And so during the years of recuperating, um, he we ended up in a position that we lost our house and had to lean very heavily on that family that I was talking about. And it unfortunately created a bit of tension within the dynamics of the extended family, some of which we no longer even talk to or communicate with because there was a real difference of opinion. And what's come out of that for me personally is that regardless of how I feel about how someone has handled something or where life has taken you, or you have to allow people to make mistakes and to not always act in the way you think they're gonna act or should act, right? Because everyone's, you know, perspectives are different. But that you should stand behind people when they can't stand up for themselves. And so I went through this when I was um between my sophomore and junior year of high school. And my my older brother was two years older than me, my younger brother much younger. So he was in elementary school. And, you know, we had to figure this out as really young people and then think about well, who can we trust if it can't if it's not this family that we've grown up with and that we felt we were we were so close with. And and so that has really shaped kind of how I look at things and what I think about even in my in my family now as an adult. Like, how do I show up differently for my nieces and nephews, and for my in-laws or my brothers or their spouses, et cetera. So yeah, it's played a big, a big part in in my life.

Empathy, Standards, And Leadership Style

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Well, I think what's um I love philosophy and I've studied a lot of different ethical frameworks, uh, which basically just, I mean, morals, ethics, essentially the same mean the same thing, like definitely the different moral frameworks. And you know, there's this uh concept of being a virtuous person, and it it ultimately comes down to your value system and how you act as a person. Um and one of the things you you mentioned is one of your like life advice for folks we'll talk about later is being kind of like self-motivated. Um, I think it's it's also self-motivated towards creating a value system, right? Yeah. Um and I think the concept of virtuous person is having values and sticking to principles when things get hard. Like it's it's easy to be honest if you don't have a reason to lie. It's easy to be uh brave if there isn't a reason to be scared. Like it's courage takes being fearful, doing something scary. Um, you know, the virtues, these traits are things that they only have value if you're doing them when there's an alternative that's easier in the moment. I just think that, you know, when you folks kind of go through these types of experiences that maybe you did, I think it's it teaches you that because it teaches you like as a leader how to step up and meet people where they're at and maybe help them through different challenges that they're going through. So I I'm curious, like when you talk about like how you show up for family or for peers, can you tell me a little bit more about that and how you think about being uh a leader on your family community professionally?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah, it's funny, as you were talking, it made a lot of sense, but I've never thought about it that way, right? I've um I'm probably gonna want to read whatever virtue book we just talked about. But I would say this I'm a very empathetic understanding, but I'm also the person who is if you say you're gonna do it, I expect that you're gonna do it 100% without me having to follow up. And I'm going to give you the opportunity to do it. But if I have to come over the top, it's not always the easiest for like I it makes me frustrated as a leader, right? So there's good and bad to this value system we're talking about. Uh, but like I I will give a lot of lead, I will give a lot of coaching, I will, you know, understand when things are coming up. But if you aren't showing up and you aren't doing what I'm asking for, I lose the patience I have. I that does get me frustrated. And it, and now that you're saying it, it's like, oh wow, that's you know, I can see it in myself as we're having this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah. Well, I think it's um, you know, when it comes to like trying to be having a really strong value system to be the best version of yourself and help others be the best version of themselves, we also have to look at it through the lens of surrounding ourselves with people that we want to invest in and that are kind of on a similar path, right? I'm trying to think of a different way to say what I want to say, but I can't. Like, I just think it's like we have to be thoughtful of investing in the right people, choosing critically or thoughtfully about who we surround ourselves with, because we do want to be helpful, we want to be good leaders, but like kind of like what you just said, in terms of you say you're gonna do it, do it like or whatever levels of personal ownership or accountability. If folks maybe don't have that, then it's that frustration occurs. It's very natural. It's like, well, okay, well, let's find, let's surround ourselves with people that have that shared value, right?

Work Ethic And Early Jobs

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yes. Yeah, and I will say I have that in spades on my team. You know, as I look think about the personalities as I'm reflecting on this, I've had those conversations with several members of my team where there's where they said, I appreciate that you're transparent and that you are clear about what it is that you're asking for, but you do it in a way that you meet us where we are or what have you. And listen, I have my bad days too. I'm sitting here and telling you all the good that I'm sure there's bad, right? But I've had these conversations with my teams where where they say, like, because of who you are and the relationship that we've built, I want it show up that way for you. Right. Like I it it empowers me to do what you're asking me to do, right? So that's that that's kind of how I try to lead is to is for people to feel that within themselves versus me having to drag them along. And I will tell you, if I have to drag you along, it's not fun. You know, it's not because it's not fun for me, it's not fun for you, you know. Um, but it probably does drive very much from what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Oh yeah, for sure. And um, you know, another another thing that I know is a big part of who you are is like the situation you found yourself in as a child, a teenager, you you had to to work really hard, and it sounds like grow up very quickly. And it it seems like you were in a position that you developed a very strong work ethic early on, which I think has has probably served you well in terms of like taking something that was really hard and then finding a way to be very successful in life. And again, I think it comballed, I was like, I can't even remember how many promotions you've gotten. Like there's so many on your on your profile. So clearly, like you're a very hard worker. But could you just tell us a little bit about that? Like what that experience was like working hard at a young age and and how that impacted who you've become today.

The Pivotal Career Breakthrough

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah, I was very financially motivated at a young age because when you have nothing, right? You're like, and it was the age of Abercrombie was really popular, and fill on the name other really popular, expensive brand name at this point. That was the age I was growing up in. And so my friends had, you know,$100 jeans, and I had nothing with a brand name and barely like was getting what I needed. And so I wanted to work, so I had money to either get what I needed or put some money aside. And there was a lot of saving. Uh, I was innately that way. I told you I was a rule follower. So I was innately that way when I would get money for Christmas and things earlier than that, I would put half aside. That was always who I was. But after working, there was a lot of focus I had on kind of building myself a little bit of a nest egg. And I thought of that very early on, where most kids are like, I'm working so that this weekend I could buy the hundred dollar jeans or whatever. That's just kind of how we were back then. And so I worked a ton of jobs, or I worked, you know, 40 plus hours during the summer when my friends were at the beach and I wasn't. And because it was important for me to have some sort of stability. And I recognized that because I had this good work ethic, I did really well and in these roles. And so I would get raises, or I would get asked, like, oh, do you want to do this? Or I'd be like, Hey, I saw this opportunity. Can I get more involved here? And so it worked for me. Um, I think there were probably some times I could have worked less and had more fun, but uh, but it did work for me. And it has built like my work ethic over time. But I will share this one little story for you is I have had a really great career at Compalt, but it wasn't always easy. I did have one boss that was really hard. And I do say boss because I would I would categorize boss versus leader or manager. Um, she was not advocating for me, but really for anybody. And so that was coming across not great for me. And I had my first child and I came back and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. So I can either stay at this company and do something different, and I like the company and most of the people, or I could leave. And so I sat down with one of our HR people who was a friend of mine, um, not as close a friend, very, very close friend now, uh, both of us still there. And I was like, What can I do? Is there any shot for me here? Or should I just look? And she was like, Oh, we're hiring and recruiting. So I sat down with our HR leader at the time, our our chief people officer. And he was like, Well, I don't believe in you, and I don't think you should have this job. And I said, with all due respect, you don't know me. And he was like, I talk to you every day in the kitchen getting coffee. And I said, Yeah, I talk to you. So I know about your daughter, I know about this, I know, and I listed off the things I know about him, and I said, Please tell me one thing you've learned about me. And he couldn't. And he was like, Okay, I will give you this chance. And you have, I don't know, six months to sink or swim. And I was like, challenge, accepted. And uh, that was a big and it I it's been smooth sailing since that day at Commvault. But I, you know, it's not everything is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Yeah, that's um when when you look at that uh individual that told you he didn't believe it, you what kind of leader was that? Do you feel like that was the way that that's phrased doesn't sound like that is at least at the time that would have been pretty hurtful and not helpful. Was was this person you feel like kind of in their own way trying to be helpful? Or was this was I mean, that's just sort of it's not what you want to hear from someone. I mean, you want to get like feedback, but I mean, geez, it's like you know, it's not the way it was a hard conversation, and I I will tell you this in the conversation, you know, but I went to the bathroom and cried quite a bit after that conversation was over. Well, you you held your own though. I mean, it's like you kind of, you know, it sounds it seems like you kind of threw a punch and you you kind of like threw one right back.

Bad Boss Lessons And Reclaiming Direction

SPEAKER_01 16:07

If you learned anything about me, I can throw a punch.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, I know. For for like that's um good for you for being able to like really stand up for yourself. And clearly you made an impact on him and and changed his perspective. Um Yeah, that's it's actually interesting. It sort of reminds me of when I was uh uh starting out for like a multitude of reasons. Like I actually I didn't graduate. Um, you know, I I always was much more driven towards entrepreneurship. I was very ambitious. I was always working, even like in in college. I mean, even my senior year in high school, I was dual enrolled so I could work on Capitol Hill. Like I wanted to get out there and do the stuff, right? Uh versus more passively learning. Um but I remember I I I got a temporary job at a company called Kforce, um, which is like a big publicly traded staffing company. I've heard of them. Oh, you do? Okay. Yeah. So that was like my first corporate job. I was like, well, it was my first, I did free internships for like over a year, and I worked in a boxing gym to make money so I could go to school and do all these types of things. It was my first paid internship minimum wage. Um, and they had a very strict policy about uh having a college degree, and I hadn't graduated uh yet. And so it was definitely like this motion of um needing to be like to believe in myself and like to hold my own. And when you're getting kind of this feedback that it's hey, that's like literally not possible for you to work here uh or get into this next job to be like I'm gonna figure it out. I'll find a way to add enough value, I'm gonna find a way to just become indispensable. And I ultimately got there after like six months, I was able to convert to a W-2 employee and they made an exception for me. But it was just sort of similar in that it's like this feeling of like combating being told maybe you're not good enough.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

And then like just being so headstrong and just trying to brainwash yourself into like I absolutely am. And I would have proved you're wrong. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but anyways, yeah, it's just kind of interesting because it's just interesting because it's like a very similar story, like in a sense, like there's differences, but in terms of starting out and recruiting, it seems like I I there was a fair amount of doubt in my ability to be successful as well. So, anyways, I don't know. I just want to share that with you. It's just kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

I mean, I'm glad you did. And you know, I think that we all have these types of it's never a cut and dry easy path, or at least the best the the place to get into the best version of yourself is never the most cut and dry.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah, clean. It's messy. Yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely messy. Um well, so so you got into like recruiting, and then clearly like you've been uh very successful when you moved up within the company. You definitely had like some serious, some pretty significant areas uh in your adult life where there was pretty significant obstacles too. Um I remember you were telling me about one of your first managers out of uh out of out of uh school where it sounded like it it just wasn't um it wasn't going well. And I know you had to you decide to leave the company after that, but you had mentioned that there were some insights that you learned along the way of maybe like reflecting back on what you do and don't let other people influence in terms of your career and the direction you go. Could you tell us that story and then you know just tell us more about what you learned from that experience?

Say Yes And Create Your Own Chances

Visibility, Value, And Promotion Mindset

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, I think the reason why I held my own in that conversation I just talked to you about is because of this story. I was in college, I lived in Maryland, I graduated during the recession, so it was a really hard time to get a job, but my contacts were down by school. And we had a great career services center, like they were helping me, but I didn't want to stay there and they didn't have any polar connection here, but I wanted to come home, be closer to family, friends, where I grew up. And so I I came home and I took this job at a uh recruiting company that I was a coordinator. I wasn't even a recruiter yet. And I had the best boss when I started, best manager, best leader when I started. I loved him. He was fabulous. Uh, we worked together for about six months, and then he relocated to uh the West Coast where he was from. And they brought in this woman who was young. I think I think she, not to say anything about being young, but you know, my point of that is she was a new manager and she was really hard on me. And I I just couldn't understand it, but I was like going home upset every day. Just I I was like, I'm getting beat up all day, every day. And I I it feels personal. It doesn't feel work related. I can't exactly pinpoint what that is. I don't remember the day-to-day, but I remember it feeling very much about me as a person. And so I decided to quit. I was like, I'm young and I don't have a mortgage, and I'm like, I'm out of here. And uh I quit. By the way, I'm not advocating for that. I'm hoping not the best solution, but that's the decision I made. So after that, I went into her office to to give her the resignation and tell her, you know, why I was leaving. And she was like, Oh, you're right. I um I think that you have potential, but only if I, you know, mold you the way I want you to be. And I was like, Well, geez, I don't think you should mold me the way you want me to be. I want you to help me with the skills to grow and the to do the job well, but I don't want to change who I am. Like that's that's who I am. So I was like, okay, and I'm out of here. And then she was like, Well, today will be your last day. And I was like, okay, bye, you know, and I've never spoken to that woman ever again. And it rattled me. And so I went back to work part-time and I went back to school. I was like, I'm just gonna change my whole career because that's not the environment I want to be in. And then, like, six months into that, I'm like, what the heck? What am I, or maybe I might have even been three months. I'm like, why am I doing that? Why am I letting this person decide who I'm gonna be? Like, she's one person in all of this. So I then started applying for temporary jobs and landed at this company with my to this day favorite manager and good friend. And uh, she turned everything around for me. She helped me see that there was value in what I was bringing to the table and doing it in my own way. And she Me a lot of rope. Like, here I'm going to give you this project. And I would just run with it. And she let me. And so it really started to give me the confidence back that I needed to believe that there was value in what I was bringing to the table. And I again think that is why I stood my ground when I had that conversation with my uh CHRO a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Well, more than a couple years ago, but we're going to get into talking about your top advice just based on where you are today, holistically across the board, professionally, personally. One of the takeaways that I received was that you seem to be a person of like high levels of personal ownership and accountability. You didn't say that directly, but it's like that's what I like the takeaway from what you when we talked about the type of advice. So we'll talk about exactly what you said, but I just want to talk about this for a minute. This high level of personal ownership. And what's interesting is I'm wondering it's like getting back to that story of being told, like, I want to mold you. She wanted to mold you the way that she wanted you to be, but your your response is like, no, I want to be myself. Like I want to go on my own path. It's just interesting because it feels like that's an example of like personal ownership of taking charge of your own life in your own direction.

Collaboration And Building Your Brand

SPEAKER_01 24:03

That's fair. I didn't see it that way. Uh it's easier with hindsight.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah. I don't know. I this is But it is how I lead.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

I will tell you that. I talk to my team a lot about you know what's important to them. And I ask them like what they're trying to accomplish. Because I don't ever want to be the person who's putting somebody into something because I think it's the right thing for them. I want them to think it's the right thing for them. Now, there are times where I'm I may guide you from like my 10,000-foot view is, but it's still your decision.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah. One of the it's in terms of top advice of like where you are today is um you talked a lot about saying yes to opportunities, but the the emphasis was like not waiting for someone to tap you on the shoulder, uh, to proactively raise your hand. It's again to me, it's just like this is ownership, right? It's like taking charge. But could you tell us more about that? Like for folks that that maybe for one reason or another, maybe they feel like they're they're stagnating in the career, maybe they feel like they're getting passed up on that opportunity uh to advance. Um, maybe they even feel like you know they're doing all this amazing work, but it's sort of being overlooked. How do you really take charge of that? And how do you uh step up and take ownership over your own progression? Do you have any advice, whether through stories of any of like the more recent promotions that you've got in that you could share, or just give us some more insight into how you think about that?

Self-Motivation Over Willpower

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yes, I would say the role that I'm in now is the first time somebody asks me to take something on versus me asking. And that's because I've always asked. And so if you're in your earlier career or you're stagnant or you're trying to figure it out, one is make a list of what you like doing, what you don't like doing, where you want to focus, where there's opportunities for you to stretch and think about the role that you're doing or the company that you're working for differently. Having a different perspective and bringing that to the table, people will want to listen to it because it's the next level of innovation, right? Uh, either in the role or with the company. And if there's a project stream and it's something that you're interested in or you heard about, no shame in saying manager, step up manager, that's something that I'm really interested and passionate about. And here's what, you know, here's what I think I can bring to the table. You do your best work when you're passionate about the work that you're doing. So seeing an opportunity and asking for it and giving reasons for that are only gonna put you forward and visible. And visibility is one of the biggest things that get you into the next job that you want to have. And the other one is a lot of people are afraid to say yes because they're busy and they have enough on their plates and there's more work to be done. And you, so you're like, no, I'm just gonna stay here and be quiet. Don't stay there, be quiet. Say yes when the opportunity is on the table because it's again another opportunity to be visible or collaborate with somebody different, or be seen as somebody who's willing to do the hard work. And that in and of itself, depending on your organization, is enough to get people to stand behind you.

Marriage As True Partnership

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I I think the what uh that really stood out to me is just like this most recent promotion was the first time that somebody came to you. Uh, I love that. And that's actually the like that proactive approach is something that I was actually just mentoring somebody yesterday. Um, she's preparing to to take on a a new job, and she asks for advice on like, hey, what do you think I could do to be successful? And it's like, well, figure out her her leader, the person she's gonna be reporting into, um, and and for the company as a whole, figure out what they need to accomplish. Like, what is the top North Star goal? What do they care about? What do they need? What do they need? Like, you have your job description, right? But the most important thing is what do they need, right? And then you can you can understand, okay, for my core responsibilities, how does that feed into making that happen? But it's also about okay, executing your core responsibilities. But if there's another high-leverage thing you can do to help them accomplish what they need to do, figure that out and do it. You have to be tight with that leader and truly understand what they need to accomplish, tighter than you even are with your peers. Like you got to know with the executive, the owner, the investor, whatever, what they need to accomplish, and then what do you do to make that happen? And then the the promotion path just sort of happens more naturally. The other piece of advice I shared with her though is like, don't assume people necessarily know all the value you're bringing to the table. Everybody's busy and has a million things. So you have to kind of like tactfully, without being like coming across as salesier weird about it, like kind of remind people like, hey, like, I'm really happy to see XYZ sowing so going so well, or you know, it's great to see that all of these hires are happening on time in this department, or you know, it's been great working on this project to help achieve this XYZ goal. I mean, like doing that so like people and other members of leadership can sort of see your contribution because they're busy. They mean just it's not that they're ignoring you, it's just like they got they got a million things to do too. Um, but like that's it.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

But I would say don't expect don't expect the promotion because you've been in the role one year, two year, three year, four year. Yeah, it's just not everything you just said is far more important the contribution and the value. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah. I mean, it's just being like relentless when it comes to finding ways to add value proactively and and not waiting and high levels of personal ownership. Yeah, that resonates with me. It seems like we have very like uh similar worldviews when it comes to thinking about contribution professionally.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Glad to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Another top takeaway you you told me about is don't do it alone. Collaborate and partner with people. Can you tell us more about that? Maybe provide a couple examples in which this was like critically important, or maybe maybe there's like even a story, I don't know, where like you kind of made this shift or realized how important it was. But could you either way just give us more insight there?

Staying Connected And Aligned As Parents

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah, you want to have people who are saying these great things about you when you're not in the room, and you know that they're saying those great things about you when you're not in the room. In addition to that, so that's one piece of it. So being able to have strong relationships and partnerships with people who have influence and have a seat at the table and are saying good things about you. That would be one. The second one is you can't run a business on your own. You need others to help you. And while my job is not that I'm the CEO of this company, I do own the function that I run. And I can't hire a thousand people a year across the globe by myself. And so I need all of my team members to be working at the same speed with the same focus on, you know, with the same values as one another. And so you can't build the business by yourself. And so you need good people that you surround yourself with, that you help guide and develop and train to do that alongside you. And it takes time to build those relationships and those stakeholders and to build trust. And that is your brand and that's what you stand on. And so whether you stay at that company for 14 years, like I've been, or you go to the next company in two years, that follows you. Your brand follows you, and people will want to hire you or work with you because of that brand that you develop.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

And those relationships, right? Those relationships. Yeah, I think like ownership of that, like ownership of this entire not doing it alone. It just seems to be a common theme. Like, okay, yeah, you're not the CEO, but you do think like a business owner and like the very top executive CEO, you have that kind of mindset, which probably also enables you to think the way they think and try to understand their needs because you can kind of put yourself in their shoes too, which is really cool. I I I know you talk a lot about being self-motivated. Tell us more about that.

Becoming More Present And Setting Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 32:30

I feel you can't force someone to do any one thing, you have to find that in yourself. And I have always been someone who worked really hard. We talked about that earlier. Um, and felt strongly, and if I feel strongly or passionate about something, I want to get involved in it. But it it's like going to the gym. By the way, I just started going to the gym. Um, but you if you go to a class where someone's gonna scream at you to motivate you, right? Like, you know, that you're like in the cycling or whatever because that's what motivates you, then you're gonna be successful in that class. If you go to the gym because you're motivated to do that, because you want to get healthy or you wanna be want to live forever or whatever, whatever your motivation is, but you're doing that, and so it doesn't matter whether that person is screaming at you because when you leave there, you're still gonna come back the next day or do the next thing because it's coming from within yourself. I think it's really important. And I always have to find that within myself to be behind anything that I'm doing. Otherwise, I it doesn't get done, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yeah, and it's also probably harder to be consistent too. Yeah. As I get older, I try to operate less from willpower and more from passion. Like, cause it's if you're just operating from a place of willpower, it's like doing things when you like there's part of you, there's like this internal civil war where like you don't really feel like it. And like, so I'm like constantly if I really want to be successful at something, it's like the self-motivation or internal passion versus trying to recognize if I have this like internal civil war happening, right? Where I'm not as motivated.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

And you'll procrastinate a hundred percent of the time when you don't want to do it and when it's not coming from from within, but you will go the extra mile every time on something that you believe in and that you want to see succeed.

Self-Care, Fitness, And Balance

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I on a personal note, when I asked you like the most important takeaway from where you are in life now, what you you've talked a lot about being very family focused, and and you've talked also about marrying the right person, marrying a partner versus a spouse. Can you tell me the definition of those and how you kind of think about your partner and the dynamics of helping each other grow and be the best version of yourselves?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yeah. When we met, we didn't have two dimes together and we were really young. I met my husband before I turned 24. So I've been with him a long time. But I said to him early on in our relationship that I was not looking for a provider or a person to marry. I was looking for a partner, somebody who is gonna do life with me, not alongside me. And that laid the foundation for our marriage and our and so we balance everything. So I'm not like not the only one that does things for the kids. He does things for the kids. I wasn't the only one who woke up and did midnight feedings. You know, I wasn't, I was, I'm not the only one who gets them ready for school in the morning. I'm not the only one that takes out the trash. I'm not the only one filling the blank. We do it, we share that responsibility at a 50-50. I know not every day I give 100%. I know it, not every day. He gives 100% right there. You know, some days are harder than others, but we pick up the slack for one another when we have those moments. And I'm able to continue to grow my career and be a present mom because I have a partner who is there when I'm not there. So if I need to go to India, if I need to go to London, if I need to go to wherever, I can go and and be gone for that week because there's somebody here who can just continue what's going on at home because I don't have to explain to him where the kids have to go, what the kids have to wear, you know, because he knows we are partners. And I don't think that everybody is fortunate enough to have that. And I've seen like friends of mine who, you know, got gone through struggles because they don't have that. But I don't think you can do your best work at work. And I don't think you can do your best work at home if you're not working in that partnership capacity with your spouse. And so that's really important to me. And I think it has helped me be successful.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

How do you develop and maintain that high level of like partnership with your husband? I mean, I know it's like, you know, of course, over a period of of many years, there's probably times I'm sure it's like it's a it's a constant investment, right? So constant. I'm just curious, like if you have any advice on on how to work really well together and how to stay connected and keep that partnership tight and and everything on track. Do you have any advice there?

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I would say I'm the poster child for you know, uh everyone's inside their homes is different. Um, but I will say this. What's worked for us is we made that commitment and we continue that commitment and we check in with one another. So we I have friends who are like, I haven't talked to my husband in three days. That's not my life. Like, you know, outside of at the family, you know, dynamics with the kids or whatever. Like we talk about everything, about everything. There are no secrets. When he's down, I'm aware. When I'm down, he's aware. When we're up, same thing. Uh, I would say continue to date your spouse. So we do have time that's just us, or we take a trip that's just us. Um, and also we have found a way to be on the same page when it comes to parenting. And I do think that is another area. So I think having a lot of upfront conversations made a big difference for us. The other thing that is crazy to say out loud, but I think probably has made us stronger, is we had trouble having kids. And um it it was not an easy road. And that can hinder your relationship. And we we decided not to. Like we again, like, but these were conscious decisions that we made, and then we decided to stop and not continue to pursue it after a certain point because we're like, now we need to go into the next phase of life. Like now we need to be blessed and you know, move forward. And so, but we've made those decisions together as a team, and I think that made a big difference for us.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah, I feel like being able to get through challenging chapters can when you get to the other side of it and you really stick with it, and it's like building that muscle, right? Like as a unit, it just can bring you closer together.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

I wanted to talk to you about who you're becoming now as a person. Like our guests tuning in, like we're you know, most of lifelong learners, like they're ambitious people who want to get the most out of life personally, professionally. What's most important for you when you think about your own development and growth? You'd mentioned being more present. Could you tell us how you're thinking about that?

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Well, each day you get very caught up in the day-to-day because the days can be very long sometimes, but the years they're very short. And so I'm trying to be very like cut off when I'm with my kids. Like I do, I I set the boundaries of having some no-go time. Um, but it doesn't mean that like sometimes I don't get on Instagram, you know, I'm the only human, right? Or I'm like, oh, I could just answer this email real quick. But I need to be more like, this is the kids' time. This is like I'm hearing about their day. Cause the more I can have this relationship of them talking to me now while they're young, the more that's going to grow with them as they get older. So being present is really important to me. And uh, I don't think I do a hundred percent of the job all the time, but I'm working on it and it's a goal of mine. And I'm also, I mean, you're like, who are you becoming? I don't know. I'm still figuring that out. We're all still growing up, James. We're all still growing up.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's like being intentional about being present, right? Like it's never a perfect formula, I don't think. Particularly when you're working in in tech and you're in talent acquisition and your leadership roles, it's like and you're a parent, it's like um, it's never perfect, right? But I think it is it's more about being intentional. Yes. It sounds like that's the yeah. Sounds like you're also focusing more on on yourself, like setting aside time. It sounds like being more intentional around that area too.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah. Goal of mine this year is to be more aware of myself or take more care of myself. Um, not that I don't take care of myself, but I mean, you know, I've started working out a little bit. Now my version of working out in somebody else's may be very different. I am not gonna go to CrossFit and do all the things, but I've started Pilates and I'm conscious of, you know, how I'm eating. That started about a year ago. But just, you know, taking a little bit of time out for myself as well as the family, because I tend to put work and family, or I should say family and work ahead of what's important to me or what like my personal needs. And I'm trying to get better at that balance too, because I can only be the best version of myself in both places if I'm if I've filled my own cup. So that's what I'm working on.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Yeah, it's like important, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:19

You know, things like that.

Gratitude And Closing

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Yeah. Well, Morgan, look, this has been a wonderful conversation. I'm really happy that we were able to do this today. I just wanted to say thank you for coming on the show and and sharing more about yourself with our audience and a lot of really important lessons learned for everybody tuning in. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Thank you for having me.