EP 49: Changing the future for people with autism in the workplace w Josh Scofield.

Josh Scofield, Talent Acquisition Manager at MBX Systems joins host James Mackey to discuss  how to create pipelines for individuals on the spectrum to transition into the workforce, what’s the biggest gap in how to help individuals enter the workforce, how the labor market has changed over the last few years, and more!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Hello and welcome to Talent Acquisition Trends and Strategy. Today we are joined by Josh Schofield. Josh, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Hey, thanks so much for having me. Excited about the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, me too. I'm really excited about today. And uh before we jump into it, could you please share a little bit about your background with everybody?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah, for sure. So my uh journey to uh talent acquisition, uh, you know, HR has been an interesting one. I went to the University of Kansas, uh, graduated there actually with a uh broadcast management uh degree uh from the journalism school. And for the first uh four or five years of my life, uh spent on air, uh mostly sports broadcasting, um, you know, a lot of small high school, small college stuff in the middle of nowhere, Kansas. Uh, moved to the Chicago land area circa 2005-ish, and had the realization that uh breaking into that market in the Chicago land area was a little difficult. So made a professional transition into uh talent acquisition, um, you know, started out in um, you know, general labor uh manufacturing, that's based, then got into more professional technical recruitment, uh, IT specific, engineering specific, um, and pretty much been in that uh for the vast majority of my career. And then a couple of years ago, uh was fortunate enough to uh transition internally uh with uh an incredibly awesome company here in the Libertyville area uh by the name of MBX Systems. Um so that's kind of how I got here.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Very cool. Nice. And uh for MBX Systems, just so we have a pulse on your point of impact and perspective, uh, where you're coming from. Can you just tell us a little bit about like, okay, high-level solution, size of company, size of talent team, how many recs you're you're working with on an annual basis, like the that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, yeah. So MBX Um is a fairly rapidly growing technology firm here in Libertyville. Um, you know, ultimately what we do is design, engineer, and manufacture uh, you know, technical solutions, um, you know, hardware connected devices. Uh we're getting into new verticals, um, which has been part of the reason for, you know, I would, I would term substantial growth over the last couple of years. Um you know, we've gone some from probably somewhere in the you know mid hundreds to probably by end of this year, you know, hitting that 200 mark as far as you know, full-time internal folks. Um so, you know, really cool company um working with you know stuff that's not even out on the market yet, as far as the solutions that we create for clients all over the world. Um as far as the size of the team, I'm kind of the guy. Um, I handle everything. I have uh I have somebody that helps me. Um our um HR coordinator um has been a phenomenal uh you know assistant uh to me. Um she handles some of the, and I've I've kind of trained her up on some of the contingent stuff, right? In our warehouse and production. But uh, you know, as far as the rest of the stuff, it's uh kind of a team of one, as it were. So cool. Um, you know, number of racks, yeah, I don't have the specific numbers in front of me for the year, but I mean, we've brought in north of you know 50 individuals for the year. You know, some of that's been net news, some of that's been, you know, backfill. But um, you know, on average, I think we've been working on somewhere in the teens, you know, week over week as far as open recs, right? So, so yeah, it's been a it's been a really interesting uh 22. Um, you know, 23 is looking to to be another interesting year for probably different reasons, but uh we can we can probably touch on that later if need be.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So one of the organizations I know you said you're passionate about is autism speaks. And so I thought we could we could start on on this topic and um again really focus on how companies and organizations can help people with autism into the workforce. Um, and and just talk about that process. Where does it start? Does it start on the company size? Does it really start uh with these organizations that focus on on helping people with autism do so? Um, and if we could just kind of walk you know high level uh and down into what the process looks like and uh how individuals tying it back to town acquisition, how people in town acquisition can help inform companies and get involved uh to help.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah, yeah. So this is one of the things that since I started here at MBX, I've been, you know, pretty passionate about. Um and you know, it's it's you know, largely full transparency because you know, I have a chip in the game here. My son um just turned, he's gonna be turning 12 next summer. Um just turned 11, uh, just transitioned to middle school. He's autistic, he's on the spectrum, um, you know, high achieving. Um, you know, we just had parent teacher conferences last week and his math teacher, he's in the you know, standard classroom, said uh it would be an injustice if he was uh not in my classroom. So, you know, he's doing great. And the educational system, at least for us, right, we're incredibly fortunate in a great school, great situation. So the educational system, I think, is in a much better spot overall as far as being able to, you know, help individuals on the spectrum to, you know, achieve to their potential, right? I the gap that I see is you know, when we're making that transition from the educational system to the professional world, right? So one of the things that I have started doing, and there's a lot more work to do, but one of the things I've started doing is connecting with uh, you know, resources from Autism Speaks and some of the groups that are connected with them to figure out, you know, where are the pipelines? You know, how do you create pipelines of individuals who may be on the spectrum and are looking to, you know, either transition into the workforce or are maybe in the workforce and are looking for new opportunities, so on and so forth. So, you know, I think as far as the due diligence that I've done so far, I think the first really key important part is you know, providing that you know, education and you know, understanding, right? Um because you know, while groups like Autism Speaks have have done a great job raising awareness of what autism is and you know, trying to, you know, uh, you know, raise funds to do all the great research that they do, I think that there's still a lot of awareness internally within, you know, organizations that you know we as talent acquisition people and you know ultimately HR teams uh can be really impactful with. But I I think that's kind of where it starts, right? Providing those, you know, learning opportunities for you know internal stakeholders to because the reality is a lot probably don't understand what it is, maybe have heard of it, but you know, if there's not an understanding, then there's going to be maybe some you know aversion to, you know, you know, that that personality type skill set, so on and so forth, right? So I think education is the first real key piece. Um once you know a person you know tackles that and you start to get buy-in, um, you know, that's that's the next piece that you know I have found to be somewhat challenging so far. Um and you know, unfortunately 22 has been an incredibly busy year for us, a great year for us. And I haven't had quite as much time as I would like to, you know, put into this. But um, you know, that's kind of where I see the gap, you know, after you get the buy-in, then what? Right. Um, you know, these groups do a great job when, you know, the kids are in the educational system, but but after, and I think in part it kind of goes to, you know, one of the other topics, you know, staffing, uh, you know, shortages, you know, the the the talent market out there. I I don't know if they have the resources right on this side of the coin. So, you know, the the first key step in my in my viewpoint is, you know, getting that education out there to your teams to get the buy-in on, hey, this is a you know, significant talent pool that is dramatically underutilized. I think the last statistics that I saw, 80 to 90 percent of individuals on the spectrum were either unemployed or underemployed. Um so you know, that's a that's a significant pool of talent out there that's either under or not utilized at all. So, you know, I think getting that training out there and and getting that awareness, right, to then be able to come up with strategies internally to be able to, you know, weave them into you know your environment, your culture, I think is the first key step.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

For sure. And um from the so it sounds like the the biggest gap is just in terms of how to help individuals enter the workforce. Are there so for instance with autism speaks, is that part of what they do? Like, are they actually doing kind of um outreach to companies explaining, like, hey, we have a talent pool here that is you know particularly good at XYZ? Like, do you have room within your organization, you know, or do you see this being a uh something that you'd be interested in? I mean, are they doing that outreach specifically or are you aware of other organizations that might be doing that?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yeah, yeah. So all of the all of the outreach that has occurred has been more on my side, outreaching to them, right? And I don't think that that's because there's not the effort on their side, right? I think it's more a situation of resources, right? Yeah. Um, I think in the feel that I get is, you know, their their resources in this particular area is pretty stretched. Um, you know, the the folks that I have come into contact with and we've kind of worked through, okay, we have this training available, uh, you know, we can roll this out to your teams and and provide the training. I mean, that's great, right? Um, I think it's more, you know, because I've done all the outreach trying to figure out, okay, what is available, what can we, you know, incorporate, how how can we make some of these initial steps work? Um, it's it's mostly been things that I've kind of taken myself, right? So so yeah, I uh I they may be, um, they they may be doing some outreach here and there to companies. Um, you know, we're in the grand scheme of things, you know, a smaller company when you start looking at you know bigger players like you know, an Apple, a Microsoft, so on and so forth. So maybe there is more outreach to, you know, uh larger organizations, but um, you know, most of what I have done has been, you know, outreaching to them specifically to, you know, at least start to get some of these building blocks in place, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yeah, for sure. And I there's one organization you should check out, Pathways for Autism. And uh actually one of my friends, Alex Buckles, is the uh founder CEO of the organization. He actually has um another uh SaaS company that he's currently scaling. Uh, but I think similar to he has a similar story to yours. Um, and his his uh his focus is really on the workforce element, just like you mentioned, right? Um, so I think what what the ultimate goal of the company, and I I don't know all the specifics, but basically it's uh connecting companies um with folks uh that do have autism and specifically matching them up for jobs and and managing, I think, a lot of that process. So I think from what I understand, um people on the spectrum would actually be employed by Pathways for Autism and then plugged into a lot of different projects at employers. So I think some of the the and I could be wrong, but I think some of like the management and oversight, um, it actually happens from Pathways to uh for autism. It happens within that group. And then essentially like they're putting together, you know, they hear the project requirements from the company, and then they're implementing the solution with the with the people employed by them. Um, because I I think he mentioned like a very similar issue. It's like, you know, you have individuals that are very high achieving, um, that that have a really great skill set that they can bring to the table and add significant value, but organizations maybe just aren't educated on how to help these individuals thrive. And so that's why you need more solutions on the market, because there is a huge uh labor force essentially that that can be you know very valuable to companies that uh most companies are missing out on right now, from what I can tell. Uh from what you share with me and what Alex shared with me as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yep. Yeah, that uh statistic, uh it just continues to reverberate my brain, right? As a dad, right, and as a you know, talent acquisition manager on both sides. I mean, you know, obviously I want my son to be able to, you know, live a healthy, happy, and and fulfilling life. But on the other hand, you know, I can see, you know, this gap, right, being able to, you know, be you know, be something that would help bridge some of our, you know, talent shortage gaps, right? So I I think it's a win-win. It's just how do we get from where we are today to making that more of a you know, functional, feasible thing down the road, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

For sure. For you know, while we still have time in the podcast, I want to just talk through um, you know, there's there's still, despite even current market conditions, which are I think easing up a little bit when it comes to hiring, there still is uh definitely what's perceived as a skill gap, uh, and in some cases a la a labor drought in which companies are not able to um really find the talent that's going to move them forward. Um what do you what do you think is going on there? I think, you know, for instance, I think it's a couple of things. I think, you know, for sure, uh there are cases in which it's hard to find qualified uh talent. I think also there's a lot of broken process within companies that makes it difficult for them to recruit. So I'm I'm curious to to kind of get your thoughts on the topic and and what your what your thoughts on what you know companies can be doing uh to consistently ensure that they can fill open roles and particularly in you know positions where, you know, for instance, like engineering or um, you know, top top salespeople, uh, roles that that companies need to scale, right, and hire for a uh in a in a large quantity, um, what can they really be doing to ensure that they're better positioned than their competitors out there?

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yep. So it's been an interesting, you know, last couple of years, right? I've been through the 08, 09 situation, um, that this is you know obviously much different than that. Um what I've seen lately, I agree it's been opening up a little bit, right? Um, you know, when you start looking at your you know, zero to four, zero to five year, you know, skill set, um, I think those uh, you know, have been opening a bit, even with more of your mid and you know, some senior level uh, you know, type uh you know, backgrounds, I feel like there's been more conversations uh, you know, over the last probably three to six months than than prior, maybe. So I think the market is opening up a little bit. Um but one of the things that's interesting to me, I've I've set in on a couple of these you know conversations. Uh the most recent one I set in on was given by Ron Hetrick. Um he's a labor economist. I think he uh worked for a couple different uh you know presidential uh committees. He was with the BLS for quite some time. And what he really focused in on, well, is a couple fold. One, not only the near-term shortage, right, but more the long-term uh, you know, shortage. Um when you and the the thing that he gave out was like, you know, uh the baby boomers, huge generation, they're retiring out. So, you know, inherently right now there's a pretty big gap, right, with labor needed and labor available, right? Um, the other thing he looked at was, you know, birth rates, right? So what does that mean? You know, for today, not much, but 10 years down the road, 15 years down the road, um, it could be significant. You know, birth rates are going down. So if there's a shortage of human beings in the market right now, theoretically, by his numbers, there's going to be less in the future, right? So, you know, I from what I've seen uh from the data that I've been looking at, you know, I I don't think that, you know, this is going to be any uh less impactful as we move forward, right? Um so you know, ways to you know solve that problem, right? You know, he mentioned that people are looking at automation and robotics to solve some of these things. Well, I don't know if that's really the solution either, because you know, in order to automate a process, you have to have people to automate the process or put robotics in, you have to have people to, you know, design the robotics. So, you know, how how, you know, not only in the near term, but you know, in the future, how do we start looking at ways to kind of bridge these gaps, right? So for us, you know, one of the things, and when you look at like engineering skill or you know, senior level technical skills, um, I think one important thing is to be able to look at somebody and look at experience they have and potential, right? So being able to train up, right? Upskill, reskill, I think that's incredibly important. Because I think, you know, when you start looking at, okay, you have to have an engineer, right? Well, there's a pool of engineers out there. Well, I have to have this engineer do X, Y, and Z, right? Well, I have to have this person also know this technology, right? So you keep shrinking your pool. But if you're able to maybe train up on some of these things in short order, that you know, opens that back up and gives you more potential to look at, right? So I think upskilling, reskilling is important, um, you know, internally as well as you know, can itch maybe looking at externally, um, you know, bringing people in that, you know, have potential and you feel that can provide value and you can maybe provide some training and and ability for them to ramp up in X amount of time, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah. Hey, by the way, I just wanted to slow down on that. So, like historically, I have had a lot of trouble hiring for potential. Um, yeah, it's just like really difficult. And I don't really I haven't seen a ton of success on like personality tests and like these different like soft skill type of tests. Um, no, like I know a couple of companies that have been successful with it. I think they have really, really great like onboarding and training programs. And I think also it really does need to be for a position that you're hiring for at scale. That way, if some individuals don't work out, like you're not totally reliant on that pool. So sure, you know, if you can find some type of metric, like, okay, we're gonna hire for potential, but we can't hire for track record. Um, you know, to some extent, you need to, I don't know. Is it that we do we have to just accept that maybe a lower percentage of folks are gonna work out if we're hiring for potential? What do you I mean, what do you think about that? I mean, that's just it's stuff that goes through my head.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that that is a potential eventuality, right? Um, you know, because you know, I don't know about your experience, but my experience is, you know, hiring is a very inexact science anyway, right? I mean, even if you find somebody that checks every box, you find somebody that on the front end that cultural alignment is spot on. You still can't guarantee 30 days out, 60 days out, 90 days out, right? I mean, there's there's just, you know, there's too much gray area there, right? So I think sure, you know, with you know, hiring on potential, you're gonna have to be prepared for that potential not coming to fruition. But I don't know if it's a whole lot different than anything else, really.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Right, yeah, fair enough. I think maybe the the difference then is maybe not even I would love to see data on like success rate. I really wish I had that that data, that would be such an amazing stat to look at. Like somehow, I mean, I don't really like to mention quality of hire because it's difficult to quantify, but I you know, some kind of like success within role of individuals that are coming from you know years and years of experience from that background versus people that are you're you're really focused on onboarding and training, um, that are kind of pushing up. I think it obviously depends on the role. You know, I I I don't know, I kind of go back and forth like okay, on an IC level, I can see a lot more training for you know, hiring potential. And then for some more strategic high-level roles, maybe you really just need somebody who's been there done that. Um, so there's different aspects like that. But then again, like one of the most successful GMs, like CROs that I know, literally started off as a salesperson and worked her way up as like GM of North America for a publicly traded SaaS company. Like, so it's just like there's it's so interesting, but then how do you call that shot? Like, and it's incrementally over a period of years, and I guess you just keep slowly moving somebody up, but it's I feel like it's really hard to predict whether or not you know somebody's gonna be able to continue to take that next step. Um, very, very difficult. So it's hard to put together like a definite strategy of like, all right, we're gonna promote from within. Or you know, I think it's it's maybe it's just being open to it, but you have to have like a very critical process in place to ensure that you're only moving up people that are ready to level up uh and can can handle that next. And so then it just becomes I think somebody very senior at the at the top needs to know how to do that very well and needs to understand what success is going to look like in that next role. And hey, if we have somebody moving into their role for the first time, how much are they invested in self learning? And then And also, do we have the right advisors and people in place to ensure that they can bridge the gap if there's like certain types of reporting they're going to need to do, or you know, whatever skill set they're going to need, how much are they able to develop it in their current role? And then how do we eliminate blind spots by providing other resources for them? And that's that's where it gets really difficult, I think. And it takes a lot of time. Like then again, it takes a lot of time if you hire the wrong person externally and they screw up and you're you know, they're there for six to nine months, then you have to let them go. So either way, you have to invest a ton of time. So maybe if it's a known resource you trust, and you maybe it makes sense to focus on how do we eliminate blind spots versus hiring the unknown quantity that might have the experience. As you said, they might check all the boxes, but they must they might fall flat on their face regardless. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Right. Yeah, no, completely. And and you know, I think you know, having and you mentioned this too, you know, having the resources available, right? Um, you know, I think that's incredibly important, you know, being able to um uh what's the word I'm looking for? Uh being able to know who your high potential, you know, individuals are, right? Um, communication is incredibly important, you know, across the range, you know, between managers, HR, leadership, um, you know, all these things, you know, play, I think, uh a really important part in the whole thing. Um, but yeah, it's all all all important pieces of the puzzle, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yeah, and I also think it's like it's a little bit easier to identify high potential individuals once they've already worked for you, yeah, versus like external, right? I can look at somebody who's producing really well in an IC role, individual contributor role, and say, okay, look, I think they'd be ready for a team lead or management. I've also fallen in the trap of promoting an individual contributor to a manager and they were good at the IC work, but then they are not wired correctly for a management role. So you can make there's so many ways to make mistakes, it's so frustrating. But right, um, still, I think it's it's it's like identifying high potential is like a little bit easier with somebody, okay, that's been with the company a year or two versus hiring external for potential. Yeah, like that's that's the toughest. Like when our clients so what my company does is we've worked with you know 150 startups, gross stage companies to help them hire engineers, salespeople, all that kind of stuff. And we do it through like an embedded recruiting model, a subscription, right? Sure. And the role, like I'd rather get a search for like a very specific VP level role than them just saying, like, hey, I want you to hire somebody for potential that doesn't have a like a specific skill set. I'm like, oh my god, yeah, because it's just like as a recruiter, I'm just like, okay, I don't, you know, I can't necessarily control onboarding, right? I don't I can't necessarily control the seniority of the hiring manager that we're recruiting for. Sure. And you know, as talent acquisition, how can I ensure, how can I do my part to ensure that we're getting the best person in the seat and that they're gonna have the resources available to them. And so what I end up doing is trying to like push back and say, okay, walk me through the onboarding process, you know, walk me through enablement, what kind of resources do you have available? And trying to push back on that a little bit to ensure, okay, do we have the right things in place to ensure that somebody can come in without all of this experience and actually thrive? Or that's those are the things you have to look at, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know, it with that, right? So onboarding, you know, training, you know, and all those things play a pretty critical role, you know, I think with long-term success, right? So so yeah, no, I mean it's very much an inexact science, right? It's more more an art than a science, but but yeah, completely agreed.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah, okay, great. Yeah, I I totally agree. And um, look, man, we're coming up on time here. I have an introduction I want to make to you uh right after this call, again to Alex, my buddy Alex, who um uh started Pathways for Autism. So I think it it could be makes sense. I'll should do his LinkedIn profile.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

That would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah, and for everybody uh uh tuning in, Pathways for Autism, make sure to check it out. And then uh the organization you're involved with is uh Autism Speaks, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yep, that is correct.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Okay, cool. Uh well hey, before we we jump off today, um if people want to engage with you online, where where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn, um Josh Schofield. Um and uh you know you can always reach me um here at the office, josh.scofield at nbx.com.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Awesome, awesome. Well, hey, thank you for joining us today. Uh it's been a lot of fun chatting with you.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Hey, thanks for the time, James.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

For sure. And for everybody else tuning in, thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Take care.